I haven’t followed the controversy over the new Rob Bell book called, Love Wins very close at all. Honestly, it doesn’t even interest me all that much.
4 Reasons Why I Don’t Care About The Rob Bell Book Controversy
- It seems small to me. It seems like we should be having controversies over bigger issues if we re going to have them.
- It is irrelevant to me. Granted I don’t know much about the controversy but if it is about what I think it is about (no hell?), it doesn’t change the way I live and the way that I participate with God’s mission.
- Controversy in evangelicalism often seems more about demeaning people than real dialogue so I am skeptical that I will find meaningful, generous conversation anyways.
- This isn’t the first time we’ve seen “controversy” from Rob Bell/Mars Hill. To me, what others have classified as “controversy” is largely a misunderstanding or suspicion and speculation without context – and so I’m thinking this is the same kind thing.
So, tell me, why should I care about this controversy?
Photo credit: Flickr
UPDATE (3/19):
Looks like we’ve passed any potential for this to continue being a constructive discussion. Thanks all for participating!
During the live interview on Monday night, a guy asked Rob: "If hell isn't a real place of torment, then what does that do for motivating people through missions?"
First off, Bell doesn't say there isn't a hell, just that he is more concerned with life here on earth than guesswork on heaven and hell and those terms could be used to describe behavior on earth (point #4).
But the controversy, I think, comes from the camp that feels life is merely a spiritual battlefield between good and evil, heaven and hell, and we need to get more for our side to win. So the idea that the eternal torment or the eternal paradise is no the primarily contributing factor in a person's faith is shocking and offending to some people.
To me, I'm with you, we'll see when we get there. Until then, I'm gonna try and live life like I should.
I can sympathize with not feeling like getting into the debate. Given that there are different parts of the Body of Christ, it might not be your primary role to engage in doctrinal discussions or debates, so I can't say you ought to participate in it.
However, I do think I could make a case for why you should care about universalism. Bell and his detractors agree that our understanding of God's love, justice, salvation, how to interpret the Bible, the Bible's authority, and heaven and hell are really important. Universalism is an idea worth caring about because it has an effect on nearly every (if not every) aspect of theology, which in turn has an effect on our practices. For example, universalism undercuts the Bible's message about holiness, justice, and the need for obedience and transformation, and replaces it with a theology that boils down to "I can have my cake and eat it too." Universalism makes holiness and obedience in this life an option for overachievers while the rest of us can revel in lukewarm Christianity and enjoy our "less serious" sins. If that doesn't affect the way you do mission today, it eventually will (if the idea becomes prevalent).
I think Rob Bell is better off ignored in favor of other more careful writers, but he is influential to some degree, so shouldn't someone provide a meaningful, generous, and biblical voice in the conversation at some point? Maybe that person is you. Maybe your role in the conversation is one-on-one over coffee with a confused and impressionable Bell-reader rather than in the heat of the blogosphere battles. Either way, it would pay to care a little.
Are you convinced yet?
Completely off topic here O.B., but I appreciate the tone and nature of your disagreement. It is through comments like yours that we create meaningful dialog rather than cannibalize one another.
Dear Mr. Folsmbee,
Let me try to tell you why I believe you should care.
Although we have never met, I believe it is my duty to point out some errors in your thinking. I assume you are probably a very nice guy, but this is not personal, but a question of right doctrine and discernment. First of all, I applaud you for at least having the courage to say what’s on your mind publicly, because apparently many leaders in the Nazarene church do not have the courage to say anything lately. But frankly, I also suggest that you and perhaps the entire staff at The House Studio seriously consider resigning your positions, and letting others take over who might have a bit more discernment in these issues. If not resignation, a serious amount of prayer time should be taken to ask God for wisdom and a return to strong biblical principles, instead of the type of books such as 180 that are being promoted to our youth.
As to your first point, this controversy really seems small to you? I believe matters of doctrine are pretty big issues. Rob Bell is possibly the most popular national pastor among Christian youth today, including the Nazarene denomination which you serve. It would seem that you should be prudent in keeping pace with these issues, especially since his books are very popular, as well as his NOOMA videos.
What does it mean to participate in “God’s mission”, as you say? I have never heard a clear explanation of what that term means, as it is being used frequently within the Nazarene denomination. Sounds good, but what does that mean to you? Would not defending the gospel, and scrutinizing a pastor’s teachings with what the Bible says, be part of God’s mission? That’s what many of us are doing, and why many of us have come to the conclusion that Rob Bell is a false teacher! And you seem to cavalierly brush aside the question of hell as if that is not important? If Rob Bell is implying that there is no hell as the scriptures teach, and that unrepentant sinners might still get to heaven after they die, don’t you think this is worth investigating, especially by someone who is a youth leader and very influential?
You say you don’t know much about the controversy. Well, I suggest that you get to know about it because there’s enough noise being made by many Christians around the country, and if you continue to “not know much about it” and not even check it out, then I ask you again, please consider seriously resigning your position! In such a position as yours, you ought to know what Rob Bell is teaching, and you ought to be able to articulate clearly to us what you believe about his positions on hell, eternity, and who is or is not saved. Don’t you think that’s important, especially if it is true that he is preaching another gospel, as many believe he is?
Thirdly, you seem to be implying that criticism of a pastor’s teachings and doctrine is a matter of demeaning him? Are you familiar with the many passages in scripture that instruct us to defend the faith, to judge what others teach, to reprove, rebuke those who preach another gospel? Do you remember when Paul rebuked Peter publicly? Was he demeaning to Peter? Do you remember the Bereans, who made sure that Paul was preaching according to scripture, in spite of knowing of his reputation? If you remember, Paul also commended the Bereans, as opposed to accusing them that they were demeaning him.
Finally, I strongly suspect that if the books listed at The House Studio and Barefoot Ministries are any indication, your organization is heavily supporting the emergent church movement and all the baggage that comes with it. That movement has been seriously eroding our strong foundations in the church for a long time, and if proper biblical discernment is not your strong suit, then perhaps its time for new leadership at this organization, as well as at Barefoot Ministries and Nazarene Publishing House.
The purpose of youth ministry should be making disciples of Christ. If the faith of a student "falls apart" because they read a book by Rob Bell, or anyone else, then that is on the teachers who are supposed to be discipling them. In my opinion, our goal should be to teach young people how to think about their faith, not JUST tell them what is right and what is wrong. If we haven't taught them how to think critically about things like heaven, hell, sexuality, justice, compassion, etc then we are not really discipling them.
I hope that the young people in our youth ministry at church would be able to encounter these issues and think critically about them. I would hope that our young people would not be so easily swayed. Let's focus first on teaching the Truth to young people instead of making sure they know what we don't agree with. And at the end of the day, let's all be humble enough to recognize that we don't know the fullness of who God is and what God's plan is.
I don't have any major disagreement there with what you said
I would just simply suggest that we do both- teach them the Truth- which is revealed once and for all in scripture- AND if we do that, then naturally it comes after that we can also clearly say what we don't agree with- based on what scripture teaches.
We don't know all about God- but God has spoken to us through the scriptures- and we need to remain faithful to all that He has taught and reveled in scripture. Nothing more, nothing less.
2 Tim 3:17-17 says: All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
I don't think a lot of that correction and reproof is going on in many churches of today, including my Nazarene denom.
I agree, but the problem is that even when we correct and rebuke we are called to speak the truth in love! Much of the response to Rob has been unloving. So to attack someone in an unloving way who obviously believes the most important thing is love is to immediately to be written off by that person. Thus, we are either wasting our time in writing to Rob or we are merely writing our critiques for ourselves and other people who already agree with us. Unfortunately, most of what I read in leading up to the book release was unloving and unChristian, thus proving Bell's point that much of Christianity is happy to be unloving. So wouldn't someone in Chris's position be doing a better job to write and publish books that speak truth, instead of spending time talking about other books?
Also, this post is about Chris not caring about the controversy, not about him not caring what Rob is teaching.
Please define unloving, or point out specifically what was said that was unloving.
In Acts 13: 9-12:
Then Saul, who also is called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked intently at him 10 and said, "O full of all deceit and all fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease perverting the straight ways of the Lord? 11 And now, indeed, the hand of the Lord is upon you, and you shall be blind, not seeing the sun for a time." And immediately a dark mist fell on him, and he went around seeking someone to lead him by the hand.
12 Then the proconsul believed, when he saw what had been done, being astonished at the teaching of the Lord. NKJV
Was Paul unloving in saying and doing what he did, which actually led to someone believing? How should he have dealt with Elymas? Say sweet words and ask him to consider what he was doing and have a conversation, until they came to an understanding?
With all due respect, many of us who are calling out Rob Bell for what he is, are called unloving. Yet that accusation is thrown out at us, without any justification or biblical support, and without even quoting what was said that you think was unloving. I don't buy it.
And as others have pointed out here, a person in Chris's position should care about what Rob Bell is teaching and should pay attention. His lack of response at the very least is irresponsible, and at worst, an indication that he has no problem with Rob Bell's false teachings.
Chris, it's a little late at night right now for me to answer your question at length – I often feel the same misgivings about modern day controversies within the church.
But the main reason I'm chiming in is to congratulate you – you've managed to write a post that got three comments, all of which were longer than your post. Sounds like you hit on a good topic.
I'll think about your question this weekend, and if anything comes to me I'll be back next week.
I believe that all publications on the emergent church should be taken out of circulation by Barefoot Ministries and the Nazarene Publishing House. If our leaders from decades ago knew the crap people were feeding out youth, they would be rolling over in their graves. I am glad they are in Heaven where they are too busy rejoicing and loving our heavenly Father to know what is going on down here.
4 Comments Why I Care About What The Opinions of NPH , The House and Barefoot Employees and Ministries Leaders Is Regarding The Rob Bell Book Controversy.
1. When someone is in leadership with the publication arm of the youth of my church and our denomination I want to know what they think about one of the youth icons when they are controversial.
2. When leaders and publishers do not take a solid position or opionion then they might as well put the bumper sticker on their cars/lives that says COEXIST.
3. What NPH does not say about Rob Bell and other cultural Christian Controversaries says alot more than had they said nothing at all.
4. These are the type of reasons why our teens will not attend NYC11. When you publish a post about why you don't care then I care more about our direction as a publishing arm then ever before.
Oh entirely. Those "COEXIST" bumper stickers are so insulting. I mean, does someone really expect us to all coexist in harmony despite our differences in opinion, religion, race and gender? Jesus clearly wanted us to CO-DESPISE each other, especially those who don't believe like us.
4 Reasons Why I Don’t Care About The Rob Bell Book Controversy
1. I am more concerned about spreading the gospel and sharing the message of hope to a dying world than I am taking time to rebut everything that comes out of Bell’s mouth.
2. Rob Bell is only one author. Granted he has a large readership and influence in the American church. I would think if one disagrees with Bell, it would be better to promote authors that I felt were worth reading. I am not against book reviews, but I know a lot of ministers, youth workers, teachers, auto mechanics and so on that don’t even know who Rob Bell is. I would rather share about books that I felt were worth reading, then to spend time and energy talking about books I am against.
3. Chris is right, we are more concerned with demeaning than with honest dialogue. Yes, the Bible talks about speaking the truth in love, but it must be done with grace, mercy, and Christlike love. Using demeaning language, sarcasm, bullying, and so on should have no place in our conversations. I meet people every day who are looking for something real and authentic, different from what the world offers. We as the body of Christ must set the example with each other, and with those outside the four walls of the Church.
4. I am aware of Rob Bell. I am aware of Glenn Beck. I am aware of Oprah. I am aware of SpongeBob Square Pants. However, I know God’s Word. I choose to focus on the transforming message of God’s Word. Our desire should be to let its message (through the Holy Spirit) saturate every aspect of our lives, and spreading its good news to those around us. The Psalmist said in Psalms 119:105, “Your word is a lamp to my feet and light for my path.”
1. We need to do BOTH, it's not an either one or the other type choice. I prefer to spread the gospel, and then defend it vigorously within the body of Christ against all false teachers, including Rob Bell.
2. Rob Bell is a false teacher. One at a time they accumulate followers who are deceived, and if he fools even one young person, that's one too many. So you would rather NOT warn your young Christian friends that there is someone teaching false doctrines, especially someone who is popular such as he? If you really feel that way, I pray that you are not a youth pastor responsible for leading young people, because that would be reckless and irresponsible for you not to show them that the book they are reading has false doctrines in it.
3. Chris is wrong, and Chris needs to bring a better explanation to the table. We are called biblically to refute false doctrine, as I explained. How does Chris justify his comments with any biblical defense?
And did you ever see kid gloves treatment in the Bible by Jesus or the apostles when it came to false teachers?? No, they took it seriously, because it was not the case of people going the wrong way. It was always the case where PROFESSING believers were teaching false doctrine, and they let them know in no uncertain terms what they thought of them. Just one example: see how Paul spoke to Elymas the sorcerer. So you are ignoring clear teaching in scripture, and trying to tell us that we should not rebuke them when they need to be rebuked!
4. I am glad you know God's word. But what about the young Christian who is being led astray by Rob Bell, Oprah, or Beck? Do you let them go on believing a lie, and hope and pray they come to the truth? Or do you lovingly point out the falsehoods of these teachers so they are not led astray down the wrong and wide road? I would hope so.
A few thoughts.
First, am I the only one who can't stand it when someone wants a huge pulpit to speak their mind and then refuses to sign their name? It's like someone throwing arrows over a wall that they are hiding behind.
Second, I can't comment extensively on the book because Amazon is taking their sweet ol' time in sending it to me. With that said, I hope anyone who is vehemently supporting or attacking the book has actually read the book. If Rob Bell is suggesting (again, I don't know what he thinks b/c I haven't read it) the possibility that hell is empty, I hope he is right. Wouldn't it be great if, ultimately, all people were redeemed? The only reason someone could possibly respond by saying "no" to that question is if there is a deep anger that resides in our heart. Perhaps Bell is holding out that God's grace and mercy goes even further and wider than what we have traditionally thought all along.
Third, while I don't want to speak for Chris, to be about God's mission is to boldly and regularly pray, "your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven." As the Church, our primary goal and calling in life is to love God and love others. When the Church is faithful in this calling, we will work alongside God in bringing God's Kingdom here on earth. Whether all people are ultimately redeemed or not does not change the necessity and centrality of this calling on our lives.
Lastly, "My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry…" All discussion of theology and doctrine must be approached with a posture of humility. We are talking about God and eternal things here and none of us have first hand experience of what is to come. May we continue to approach God with humble hearts while conceding to the Spirit's leading and guiding of our lives.
Jason, if it's me you are referencing, then my name is Manny Silva. I am a lifelong Nazarene who has been fighting the emergent church and other apostasy movements in our denomination for a couple of years now. Now you know who I am at least. I have never been afraid of letting people know who I am and what I am standing for, and what I am fighting against, including our General Superintendents. http://www.reformednazarene.wordpress.com
Jason,
God's mission for us is clearly stated at the end of the gospels where He tells us to go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, preaching to them, and teaching them to observe all things that He commanded (which would include warning). He emphasized that our mission was to call people unto repentance for the remission of sins beginning at Jerusalem and then to the rest of the nations.
Calling people to repentance for the forgiveness of sins is what has been downplayed and all but eliminated today through the new and improved "gospel" of……. "God loves everyone and they are all in, so lets win people with the social justice gospel of good works".
Saying that it would be great if Rob Bell's suggestion of everyone being "in" goes against a Holy and Righteous Judge. God would not be good or righteous if He didn't enact true justice.
He has stated very clearly that He will come again, but in judgement.
Heaven is brought to earth through repentant hearts who are forgiven…..who then become changed people,…….. people who hate sin, hate lying, hate cheating, hate sexual sin, hate coveteousness, etc, these people with new hearts then affect their families, which then affect the community, which then affect a nation. Good works result from a new heart of flesh….which is God's work through man.
Heaven is not brought to earth by our own efforts of good works.
Please consider when you read the writings of Rob Bell and others, how they cast these teachings aside and/or distort them to promote their re-packaged gospel.
May the Holy Spirit speak to your heart and lead you to His truth in this matter.
Just a clarification–Is it just me, or do a lot of these comments make the assumption that The House caters to Nazarenes simply because that is who is our sponsoring entity? Weslyan–yes. Nazarene–not necessarily.
exnazarene-
Thanks for your thoughts. Really interesting stuff. Could you please define "true justice" and what you believe it will look like for God to enact this?
Jason McPherson- I agree with everything you wrote. I think you will like the book. I recommend it on audio.
Hi Jason,
God's true justice on sin and those who have rejected His sacrifice and shed blood as justification or payment for their sin will be cast out from His presence and condemned.
God is holy, good and righteous and therefore must enact true justice. (He is the Way the Truth and the Life…..thus His justice will be true.)
He is also loving, longsuffering, and merciful and has provided Himself as a ransom for man's soul. However, we must first repent, and trust in Him alone as the only way for salvation.
Once someone fully understands and comprehends this, all else pales in this world.
He grace is truly amazing!
And His justice will be a day of dread where unregerate people will want the rocks to fall on them and hide them from His presence.
He came as the Lamb to cover our sin (those who have repented) with His blood…..and will come again as a Lion that will enact final judgement on those who have rejected His sacrifice and loved their sin more.
Ex Nazarene,
I thoroughly agree with you that Christ has called us to "make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit while teaching them to obey everything Christ has commanded to teach." Any teacher/minister who does not emphasize the necessity of a truly repentant/confessional heart is preaching a gospel I want nothing to do with. Know that my agenda is not to push the latest 'fad' or 'trends' in theology. Instead, I am seeking to know, serve, and love God more, just as you are.
I've thought about your response and I don't think there is anything wrong in hoping that God could quite possibly give 'the lost' an opportunity to respond to his grace after we die. The scriptures to back this up? None. Would I teach this from the pulpit. Of course not. This is me simply trying to reconcile the image of the father who runs to embrace the prodigal son with the doctrine of eternal damnation.
This hope that I have in no way endorses the belief, "Jesus is one option of many." As I mentioned in my previous entry, it is only in and through Christ that you or I have any hope of salvation… in this life and the next. One cannot live in the presence of God without believing that Christ is Lord.
I would argue that the great commission (the call to repentance and making disciples) and the greatest commandment (striving to love God and others through the Holy Spirit) naturally leads to God's Kingdom being established here on earth. As the Church we are called to be kingdom people and kingdom workers, not just dabbling in social justice. There is a big difference.
And on a final note, Rob Bell is not God's second son. I believe that he has a passion for knowing, loving, and understanding God and that he is a phenomenal and gifted communicator. There are things he has said and taught that resonate with me far more than other things that he has said and taught. Therefore, while I thoroughly enjoy listening to him and reading what he has to say, Bell does not (nor does he claim to) have the final word on truth. However, I often find myself deeply ministered to through what he has to say.
May you also continue to seek the Lord in honesty and humility.
Thanks Jason.
Some interesting comments here. Some very thoughtful ones – thanks. Some, not so much.
I don't feel as though I want to respond to all of the comments here but I am happy to have conversation about these couple of things:
1. I am very interested in conversations around Bell's book, the content in the book and the theology in which the book was birthed. I think I have read nearly every book he has written. However, I am not interested in the controversy surrounding the book — that was the intention of this post. I've ordered the book and will read it soon. I am sure as with all of the books I read, I won't agree with everything Bell says. However, I won't be reading it with a personal agenda, a fear-based approach to educating the church or an insecure faith. All of these seem to be the lenses through which so many read and teach. Perhaps that is why we have such a controversy about this book? I live for stimulating and thoughtful conversations, I am increasingly weary of controversy.
2. Thanks for your question regarding the mission of God, Manny. Here is what I mean when I use those words… God's mission is to restore the world to its intended wholeness and we are called to participate in this mission. Or, in other words, we have been created in the image of God. Living into our image and God's story and mission means that we are called to mediate God's presence to this world, reminding the world, by living out God's intended ways, that God has not forgotten humanity.
Because of the mystery of the incarnation — the life, death, resurrection and ascension of Jesus — there can be reunion with God, peace with self, community with others and a sacred hope for the entire world.
3. Critique of a pastor's (or any other persons) teaching and doctrine is healthy. I've been preaching the last several weeks at a local church in KC and believe me, the thoughtful critique has sharpened me. It is the way that most people go about it — ignorantly, arrogantly, suspiciously and deliberately accusatory that I am referencing in my 3rd point.
4. It breaks my heart to know that there will be teens that are not able to participate in NYC because of someone's (or a group of people's) presuppositions about a person's (me) beliefs and theology — or an organizations (Barefoot/House) for that matter.
NYC will provide the space for God to continue to call thousands of teens and youth workers to participate in God's life changing, transformational movement of salvation and justice throughout the world. May God be with us as we listen to and act on the movements of the Spirit.
Chris,
Great response. I too am saddened that some teens won't get to experience NYC because their church leaders have deemed it "emergent," "controversial," or even "heretical." If my youth pastor had made the same decision in 1999, I'm honestly not sure what my life would look like now. Of course, I’m sure God would have found other ways to bring me close to him, but NYC '99 changed the entire path of my life. I grew up in a small Nazarene church that didn't employ a youth pastor until my eighth grade year.
Because of my experience at NYC, my faith became real to me. It was the first time I left the country (if Toronto counts) and realized Christian teenagers (some of them crush-worthy boys!) really did exist—both in Canada and in my tiny corner of southwest Indiana. It was the first time I experienced the reality and vastness of God and got to worship him away from my parents, my hometown, and everything familiar to me—except my two older sisters and my cousin, with whom I was lucky enough to share the experience.
I hope it wouldn’t disappoint Gary Hartke too much if he knew I can’t remember much about the content of the actual services: I’ll blame my ever-increasing age.
But because of those five days, one of my sisters and I decided to join the district choir, where we made friends we still hold dear. Because of those five days, all three of us Allen girls decided on our own to attend a Nazarene university. Because of those five days, I work at the House.
Because of those five days I am so in love with the God who pulled it all together and showed me that following him was the path to take.
That’s what I remember. And that’s why my heart breaks with yours.
Hi Chris,
Reading what you posted in #2 concerns me very much.
God's mission was to provide Himself as the Lamb that was slain for the sin of man. He provided a way for us to be bought back, redeemed, ransomed back, from our due penalty of eternal death.
When someone realizes their need for a Savior because of their uncleanness before a Holy God, and they are broken of heart, and sorrowful of soul, and with contriteness of heart repent and believe and have faith in Christ's covering of their sin with His blood, then THIS is the Kingdom of God come to earth. THIS is the mission that we are called to participate in……the preaching and teaching of the gospel, for the repentance of sins. This is what we are to live out.
However, the gospel has been subtly changed and re-shaped by Rob Bell and other popular authors that are teaching a different gospel…….one that is more palatable to the world, so that the world will "like" Chrisitians. Out with talk of sin, out with talk of repentance, and change it to making the world a better place (who doesn't want that?) by doing good works. Tweek the gospel message so that people believe that all will enter into eternal life if they so choose. De-throne God just enough so that He becomes our best bud with a peace sign around His neck.
Shrug off and cast doubt on what is written about the judgment of God and what He said He would do to the earth. Turn to writers such as Jurgen Moltmann who promote a theology of "hope" (a false hope) that says that things are getting better and God is drawing all things unto Himself. These are wrongful teachings meant to steer the sheep off course……this is a re-packaged gospel.
I hope that people reading this will examine everything through Scripture…..AND look at what the critics are saying about Rob Bell, and others and examine what they say through Scripture.
And above all else, pray as they go through this process, for God to open their eyes to His truth so as not to be led astray.
As to concerns about a church not sending their teens to NYC because they are concerned….. After seeing what is being printed and promoted via Barefoot Ministries and IMMERSE Youth Journal, it is apparent that a different gospel is being promoted.
Truth mixed with error is still a toxic substance, not to be consumed.
I'm sorry if I seem harsh. I don't mean to be. I truly feel bad for those (well-intentioned people) who want to do what is right, but don't realize what is taking place today.
Chris, good post. I'll be up front right from the get-go–I am not a big fan of Mr. Bell nor of his message. That said, I believe he has been used of God to create space for hurting people wounded by the deleterious effects of a fallen world. I believe God has also used him to help people see a side to God's grace that may have been lost through their experience in toxic religious environments. I'm talking about this hyper-critical environments where judgmentalism and criticism reigned at the expense of love, mercy, and the willingness to give others the benefit of the doubt.
I watched his interview with Lisa Miller of Newsweekly magazine twice (it's about an hour long) and came to some personal conclusions about Bell's assumptions that I have written up in a blog to soon appear on the Nazarene blogsite. I think it's perfectly legitimate to disagree and to point out such disagreements in the context of peaceable discourse.
Bell is not a universalist. Unfortunately, he is doing theology in a rather sloppy, somewhat haphazard way, and that is really unfortunate. It allows his critics to take somethings out of context. In light of the charity I wish to extend to him, I still have serious problems with some of his positions.
I remember the Church of the Nazarene when you could actually examine all sorts of ideas without fear of being labeled this or that, or being accused of this or that. What a shame we've lost that part of Bresee's favorite saying, "in all things charity!"
God bless you Chris! And God bless NYC! My granddaughter will be standing in the seats rockin' the praises of Jesus!
David Felter
Kevin DeYoung has done an excellent review of Bell's book, which can be downloaded as a pdf from Justin Taylor's blog at the gospelcoalition.org
Here is Kevin's concluding thoughts from his review:
A Concluding Pastoral Postscript
The tendency in theological controversy is to boil everything down to a conflict of personalities. This is the way the world understands disagreement. This is how the world sells controversy. It’s always politician versus politician or pastor versus pastor. But sometimes the disagreement is less about the men (or women) involved and more about the truth.
This is one of those instances.
I have not spent hours and hours on this review because I am out to get another pastor. I may be a sinner, but with four young children and a very full church schedule, I have no time for personal vendettas. No, this is not about a single author or a single church. This is about the truth, about how the rightness or wrongness of our theology can do tremendous help or tremendous harm to the people of God. This is about real people in East Lansing where I
serve and real people an hour down the road in Grand Rapids where I grew up. This is about real people who have learned from Bell in the past and will be intrigued by his latest book,
wondering if they should be confused, angered, or surprised to hear that hell is not what they’ve been told.
No doubt, Rob Bell writes as a pastor who wants to care for people struggling with the doctrine of hell. I too write as a pastor. And as a pastor I know that Love Wins means God’s people lose. In the world of Love Wins, my congregation should not sing “In Christ Alone” because they cannot not believe, “There on the cross where Jesus died, the wrath of God was satisfied.” They would not belt out “Bearing shame and scoffing rude, in my place condemned he stood.” No place for “Stricken, Smitten, and Afflicted” with its confession, “the deepest stroke that pierced him was the stroke that Justice gave.” The jubilation of “No condemnation now I dread; Jesus, and all in him, is mine!” is muted in Love Wins. The bad news of our wrath-deserving wretchedness is so absent that the good news of God’s wrath-bearing Substitute cannot sing in our hearts. When God is shrunk down to fit our cultural constraints, the cross is diminished. And whenever the cross is diminished we pain the hearts of God’s people and rob them of their joy.
Just as damaging is the impact of Love Wins on the nonbeliever or the wayward former churchgoer. Instead of summoning sinners to the cross that they might flee the wrath to come and know the satisfaction of so great a salvation, Love Wins assures people that everyone’s eternity ends up as heaven eventually. The second chances are good not just for this life, but for the next. And what if they aren’t? What if Jesus says on the day of judgment, “Depart from me, I never knew you” (Matt. 7:23)? What if at the end of the age the wicked and unbelieving cry out, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb” (Rev. 6:16)? What if outside the walls of the New Jerusalem “are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood” (Rev. 22:15)? What if there really is only one name “under heaven given among men by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12)? And what if the wrath of God really remains on those who do not believe in the Son (John 3:18, 36)?
If Love Wins is wrong—if the theology departs from the apostolic good deposit, if the biblical reasoning falls short in a hundred places, if the god of Love Wins and the gospel of Love Wins are profoundly mistaken—if all this is true, then what damage has been done to the souls of men and women?
END QUOTE
May God help the Church of the Nazarene wake up and come out of this apostasy it is sliding into, leading many young people down the road of eternal destruction. Greater will be the responsibility especially for those who are leaders in the church. Better a millstone be hung around their neck, than for them to willfully neglect the false teachers and false practices around them.
How does this rating thing work? Who does the rating? It does not really bother me about the negative numbers, I'm just curious as to how it works.
Rob Bell and others who do not believe that unrepentant sinners will spend eternity in hell need to re-read what Jesus said about it in Luke 16: [19-31] when to told the story of the rich man and Larazus. Both died Lazarus was carried by angels to Abraham's bosom and the rich man was buried. And in torment he saw Lazarus in Abraham's bosom and asked that Lazarus be allowed to dip his finger in cool water and cool his tongue. Jesus said in essence this was not possible because of a great gulf fixed between the rich man and Lazarus that neither can pass to the other. Those banished to hell will never come out. Who do you believe Rob Bell or Jesus?
These comments have little to nothing to do with the actual blog post, which is why Chris doesn’t care about a controversy set up to push book sales. Except for Jason, who already has acknowledged as much, has anyone else here even read the book to make sure you know what you’re talking about? I haven’t and hadn’t planned on it. Just not that interested.
Chris,
As much as it breaks your heart that some teens will not attend NYC , it broke my heart 9 months ago when my concerns were struggled off. Shortly after that, I had to tell our youth group why we were not going to NYC11. I actually stepped down from district leadership over this issue before you were ever publically selected as one of the many speakers, so my comment earlier has more to do with total leadership verses any one person. I have read several of Rob Bell’s books for research to verify or not the accusations of his content lacking biblical soundness. Can Rob Bell teach truth? Sure! Can he or anyone teach the truth and a lie at the same time? Absolutely! Is Rob Bell someone I want to be a role model for my/our teenagers in our church? Nope! I discern Rob Bell to be heretical in much of his understanding of the Word of God. Overall his books deeply lack sound theology for holiness living. In the words of the Apostle "a ittle yeast works through the whole batch of dough.”
Part 2
To put it bluntly as the apostle Paul once wrote to those he loved in Galatia “ You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you“ . Even though that letter was written in love over a legalism issue, it was still a tough letter written with clear correction about believers getting off base.
That is what I believe is happening with the publishing houses of NPH. The agenda and direction of NYC11 (based on the original press release of July 2010) was enough info at the time to reveal that I could not entirely entrust my/our teens to those who created the agenda of NYC11. It’s a different gospel then what I find in the scriptures and much more like that of the nature of what Bell preaches. It grieves me more than you will know.
We just got a divide going on in the church world and it has nothing to do with a generation gap and everything to do with a biblical understanding gap of the gospel. Chris, may God give you wisdom as you deal with such diversity of leadership within the Church of the Nazarene. I am still hoping & praying for solutions myself.
I question the editors assumption that a book of this magnitude and influence is "small and irrevelant" given his responsibility. I am often reminded as a servant of Christ that what I do and what I approve by word or deed carries grave consequences not only to others but to myself as well. Jesus makes this very clear in Matthew 18: [6-7] "But whoever causes one ot these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Woe to the world because of offensed! For offenses must come, but woe to that man by whom the offense comes!" Has our church's (publishing arm, education arm, pulpit) lost its burden to protect its flock as good shepherds? Did not Jesus teach this to His disciples?
I can't wait for NYC. I am a big fan of thehousestudio and barefootministries. You all have done a marvelous job. My heart is saddened to read some of these comments. I don't agree with everything Rob Bell says either, but are we that arrogant to think we have the Gospel entirely figured out and that we can know 100% what heaven and hell will be like? All of us have been influenced in major ways that influence the way we approach the Bible. We don't purely read the Bible as we know it with 1st century Jewish lenses on. We interpret the Bible from what our pastors have said, SS teachers have said, along with centuries of Christians who have struggled over the same controversies.
God's love and mercy is unfathomable.
Chris and the barefoot and housestudio teams are doing great things.
Well, I guess that is the best you can say, Mr. Wesley. Congratulations.